Some Info about Community Relations

[Death_From_Above]

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

What I see as the prime message lately is this: You want to know what we're doing. You feel we are not telling you enough. You want details, and explanations, and even conversation. The Dev Updates were designed to help address the desire for details, but obviously some are asking for more.

Well lets see Galie, when you say to us. We are aware of your concerns and the dev team is currently looking into HA. Then 2 months later nothings changed. Annd then you say that HAs not on the devs teams high list exactly youve done enough work on it. Do you think this is asking for more. I think its kind of reasonable seeing you seem to have taken everyone on a rollercoster ride making rather lets say *statements to reasure us which clearly are not all that they seem.*

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

However, conversation takes time, and details and explanations are not without risk. There is a very good reason for not developing in a glass room, for not giving details of what the team is doing.

Understandable, but with issues such as HA where basicaly your losing your player base and everyone seems to believe you dont care and are not even intrested about doing anything. I think you should consider relaying such information. Infact when was the last time you gave any information to the HA community. The last piece i heard was, oh ye where monitoring the mechanics and that was like 4 months ago.

Many people think your basically trying to take us for chumps and your plans for pvp HA which after reading some of your statements i now believe, are zilch. A majority think its basically because anet realised the pve player base brings in more cash and they have basically ruind the HA community that they have realised it would be more profitable to invest resources into the pve side than the pvp side that is HA. Now im just highlighting this is what many people are starting to think. Where our reasurance, wheres our info that this isnt so.

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

If there was a "List of What We're Working On" it would be scrutinized, second-guessed, and argued about until the cows come home. If there was such a list, people would be arguing about how to change the order on the list, or criticizing the priorities, or yelling that such-and-such wasn't on the list. How dare the developers set the priorities, huh? It's a fact with any game: The developers are in charge of developing this game, and ultimately the developers will make the decisions about everything that goes into the game.[/I] Your input is welcome, listened to, respected, and used,

Dosent seem so to me in terms of HA. If i recall, players have offered valid suggestions for a long time now since you implimented 6v6. Oh wait lets look at what was used of that, erm 8v8 9 months lather and ermmm..... oh ye there is nothing else. You already told us HAs further down your list and its good you have done because it now means the players can inform you on how big a mistake that is.

The list is clearly flawed, HA a dying community, left in ruin by anet. A simple update can fix it and yet you have it further down your list when its been over a year and you still havent done much about it. Yes that sounds genious to me to be honest. As for the developers, i think everys aware they make the final decsions and thats why kill count has been forced upon us. And HA is in the state it is, because to me and other players, it seems they want to do it how they think it would be best which is obviously not working.

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

And the team does learn that, through my team's reports, through our heads-up on links, emails, hallways nudges, lunchtime conversations, weekend and late-night emails, and very importantly, through their own reading of the posts that you make.

One question i would politely like to ask. You say you send the team reports on things they have missed. Has the issue of HA and the fact people dont like HA been sent yet? This is just a question of curiosity. Also, if they are reading the posts that we make. This really does not inspire any confidence because it appears many of the posts in terms of HA such as HA (Remove kill count, bring back alter maps, do a skill balance). Have been ignored because these have basically been almost the only posts for like months now and yet nothing has been done on it.

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

The people who are involved with skill decisions, or art, or programming, will react to your requests, suggestions, complaints, and demands as they see fit. I assume that they are tracking your concerns,

how are we ment to know this is true, iv heard this many times now, from you, from alex. Yet nothing has changed, its almost like hollow words and i feel the more you say it the less i believe you and loss trust.

[Thomas.knbk]

Amazing Thread tbh.
I agree with a lot that's been said here. If anyone wants to talk about Pvp, they need to actually play PvP at a decent level. This, sadly, includes devs and CR's.
The fact that PvP'ers don't feel like they were being listened to, and without getting personal I think the last skill update confirmed a lot of those thoughts. Hexes are undealt with, but barrage no longer removes glyphs (!), you basically recreated the old Critical Chop, only you made it better, and expose defenses has a 15 sec recharge now (SP sins can only spike every 15 seconds! talking about pointless).
But most of all, I think IT'S TOO LATE.
Too many players have already left the game. As long as Ensign still plays, there will be enough reliable input about what the PvP community wants and needs, but the big active community there once was is gone. Fury is coming, a lot of other games are coming, and unless PvP is fixed in the next few months, Guild Wars will be done for as a competitive game. It's sad, because Guild Wars has a pretty unique combat system, and in a balanced metagame it's pretty much the best online game I've ever played Or offline for that matter, but I think you've already gone too far in not listening to the pvp community.
There are more Fury devs on the Team Quitter forums than GW devs. That should tell you something.

[Francis Crawford]

I don't PvP much, so I don't have a horse in that race ...

And this goes beyond CR, but what the heck ...

Are you guys aware of what Wizards of the Coast does to increase R&D/testing staffing for Magic the Gathering? Basically, they hire some of the champion Magic players and bring them inhouse.

Perhaps, if the PvP part of the business is big enough to worry about, ANet could look into that.

EDIT: Frankly, I think investing comparable resources into PvE instead would indeed make more players happier ...

[Tea Rose]

Sounds to me like the developers heard, understood, and disagreed... or agreed and decided not to act now for any number of reasons. In any event, it's hard to believe that the tone currently coming from unhappy PvPers will persuade them to change their minds.

[bhavv]

The only thing I and a fair number of players are waiting for is balances in hard mode for hero/henchers to be able to complete the game.

Several excelent points and ideas have been disscussed by a vast majority of players regarding this balance, but nothing is ever done.

All I am doing atm in GW is playing RA and solo farming UW. Nothing else is working for me. I would love to have been able to test and play with the new PVe skills, however my heroes cant use them.

Thank you for ignoring solo players again.

[Kool Pajamas]

I'd just like to see more reasoning behind their actions/inactions. They changed a bunch of skills but didnt touch the most annoying and overused builds in HA. Its like they want those cheap types of builds to exist. Its been months since the last skill update and all they could do was that? Are we going to have to wait another 3 months before an update like the last? A skill update like the last isnt the whole problem. Its that it took so long for it to come and we'll probably have to wait even longer before another one. All we hear is "we're watching". It just makes people scratch their heads and we hear nothing about it.

[Crotalus]

I have commented on this when Gaile did the same thing on TGH. My response was very similar to JR yet generated a much different response.

That said, i agree with GhostRaptor. The posts such as the one on GWO should not be made by a competent CR. The community, are her and Arenanet's money, their livelihood. If they wish to harm that relationship by posting such disdain for the community then it is their loss.

Is hatred for both the PvP and PvE community, with that post over at GWO, a predominately PvE forum, as well as Gaile's opinion over at TGH, a predominately PvP forum, something that the whole Arenanet staff share? I would be wrong to say yes but i am sure she is not a 'rogue' CRM. She has to share some opinions with the other staff of Arenanet. That hunch is confirmed with Andrew's post who goes on to blame the community. In all fairness to Andrew that is the first post of his to rub me the wrong way but it doesn't excuse that Anet and their staff are working their butt off to remove as much sales from their bottom line.

Personally, i rather hear nothing from the CR department than what was stated over at GWO and here.

[Productivity]

I think that it's quite clear that within the Guild Wars staff, either fear or pride means that everybody must adopt a no-fault attitude, that is, nothing can be their fault, it all must be the communities.

At the end of the day, this makes for bad results for all involved.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Excellent post Andrew. The moaners and groaners on the forum sites forget what a small minority they really are. I read the forums when I need a good laugh and it never fails to produce. If you say goods things about ANET you get called every name in the book. The community has every right to suggest what they would like to see and changes that might help, they don't have a right to demand those same things. If the game is that intolerable there is a simple solution, don't play. Again I would like to thank you the post and I am just waiting for the flames I will be getting for this posting. Bring it On, I have a thick skin and the majority on my side.

[Death_From_Above]

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Excellent post Andrew. The moaners and groaners on the forum sites forget what a small minority they really are. I read the forums when I need a good laugh and it never fails to produce. If you say goods things about ANET you get called every name in the book. The community has every right to suggest what they would like to see and changes that might help, they don't have a right to demand those same things. If the game is that intolerable there is a simple solution, don't play. Again I would like to thank you the post and I am just waiting for the flames I will be getting for this posting. Bring it On, I have a thick skin and the majority on my side.

In relation to what you have said, would you say the HA community is really such a small minority. Yes everyone can decide not to play but dude if you didnt notice thats whats been going on in HA. No ones been playing hence why you find such a puni amount of players. I believe anet would rather people played or stuck around and complained rather than quiting becaus ethat = a decrease in revenue. As for the HA community. I feel we have a right to demand the changes to it such as the removal of kill count because having it just makes it unplayable and clearly is having a negative effect on the community.

[samcobra]

Although several people have posted amazing and excellent viewpoints from both sides, I would encourage everyone to remember that the founders of ANET created Guild Wars and marketed themselves to be a part of a service industry. In this context, the premier emphasis should be on service to the community, which is a group of individuals playing this game. The only way to judge accurately what the community needs is to be one of them, and the best way to become part of a community of players is to play this game yourself. No amount of reading forums and browsing links will give you as much of an understanding to this game as that simple fact of playing.

This was, if I understand correctly, the original intention of the alpha-testing group, to provide feedback based on actual gameplay to determine what was good, bad, or ambivalent in this game and to aid the devs. to strive towards constant improvement of the gameplay experience. Now, the primary input, instead of coming from players, comes from a group of outside viewers who are hired by the company to occassionally visit the game or read the thoughts of users about issues instead of actually learning about those issues firsthand. This is the source of all the fuss about not understanding whats best for the game, and the bit of 'what helps one player could hurt another' because the entirety of the input received by the devs. from the CR department seems to be based off of forum contents instead of an actual understanding of what needs to happen in the game itself.

While I am not disparaging the value of fansites and forums, I do not believe that they are an accurate way to judge what this game needs. It is akin to reading some war novels, viewing some war movies, and then feeling that you are an expert on how war really is. In both cases, things are dramatically obvious when you're actually involved in the situation itself rather than trying to garner information simply from second-hand sources.

I see great input from the posts of both JR and Black, both prominent members of the community who have been on the forefronts of issues in this game for a while. What ANET would benefit from doing is, instead of hiring people to shadow around active gamers and play as the (not so) pretty face of the company, it should keep close relations with members of the community both by hiring people who are either already actively involved in it or are willing to get involved in it and by sampling the userbase in an organized manner. Something as simple as a list like that Black mentioned would suffice. Posting an announcement in the opening status message at the login screen linking to a poll on the top issue of the week would provide droves of information that CANNOT be made apparent just by visiting third-party fansites such as Guru or GWO or TGH. Different segments of the community appear on these sites and quite a few casual gamers have no active involvement in these fansites but deserve to have their voice heard nonetheless. A simple voting system set up directly through the main guild wars website, in which users are identified simply through their guild wars account information would be a realistic means to get information from all aspects of the large community as well as a means of getting everyone on the same page as to what issues we find are currently the highest priority and would provide much more information than daily 6-page reports that people are expect to slog through documenting somebody's misadventures on the network of guildwars fansites available on the internet.

If anything, I hope that ANET will realize how much of an important role that this community actually plays, and while true democratic voting will never truly be able to replace those who can understand the game, in both pve and pvp aspects, it will provide a cheap and effective supplement. In this way, the devs. can weigh the input of those who are actively playing the game and responding to issues of balance, etc as well as the general playerbase whose opinions and continued support are integral to the success of the game and the company behind it. Hopefully lessons from this are being learned and will soon transfer over and actually be integrated into Guild Wars 2. If not, similar problems may again dredge down a great game with huge potential, for after all, a game is nothing without the following of its players.

[Rocky Raccoon]

You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not please all of the people all of the time. (Abraham Lincoln quote with 2 words changed)

[KicknDave]

There's simple solutions to everything, it's all there. With most of the "elite" fan forums raging and the responses your getting wouldn't it be time to a risk? I'm open to consider both PvE arguements and PvP arguements though I admit to only PvPing. I know that most if not all of PvE can be beat with almost any skillbar aside from DoA and some other tough areas. Ensigns posts are some of the best posts I've read in terms of skill balance in a way that won't affect both sides of the game that bad. In fact if those changes went through, you'd probably please 80% of the PvP crowd while only upsetting maybe 10% of the PvE crowd. If you haven't read his posts and his thorough(spelling?) reasoning I definetly would.

I guess I'm just supporting what everyone else is in arms about. I'm not going to quit as I still have hope for GW but, there's simple solutions to a lot of the mess going around. A PvP CR would be great and if Izzy could post his update notes that would rock.

I think it's about time Anet took some risks in forms of 1 week tests or test weekends just to see how it all goes. I think they're doing that now but...it's over skills, that weren't really used to begin with...aside from the PvE crowd.

[Silly Lily]

Everyone here do me a favor:

Go to Monster.com
Type in "Community Relations"
Click on ANY position available
Compare the job descriptions and requirements to what Andrew and Gaile do

Then you'll see why people complain. It is easy for them to say "guys don't complain because what you are asking us is not part of our job" and for the general majority to agree. However, as an informed and interested consumer of Guild Wars I would at least like CR members to do what they're supposed to.

P.S. no offense to either Andrew or Gaile, I think they're wonderful people, they just happen to massively fail at CR. You could stll fix it in time for GW2

[SerenitySilverstar]

I can't believe the Open Season shoot out I'm seeing on people who are human beings like you and me.

It's times like this I'm ashamed to be called a Guild Wars player.

Shame on all of you using the anonymity of the internet to personally attack people you'll never meet in real life. You wouldn't let people attack YOU for doing your job - do unto others, and all that!

I really hurt for the nasty things and vitriol aimed at the CRT.

[truemyths]

Gaile & Andrew

Thanks for posting... it all makes sense! Thanks for being our community relations peeps! Don't let the grumpies get ya down, they're all L.A. Freeway drivers the info we get from you all ROCKS

And I just saw the updates on the skills... woo hoo! new stuff, gotta love it... way more to it than I orignally thought there would be... great new stuff to try and learn, keeps the game interesting. Thanks for making some luxon/kurzick stuff too... that's awesome that you didn't forget about Cantha.

[scrinner]

I want that armour in his DP.

Of course since im not allowed to go off topic heres my two cents:

People on the forums will almost always be complaining. Only real happy players that come here go straight to the marketplace or the build section. Riverside will generally be full of haters since they have the most time. The people that actually like the game will be playing it.

Of course I guess the community has gotten more hostile recently. I just guess we are bored and need something new and inspirational. So how about you guys be nice with ncsoft then take advantage and rob em of all they got and hire more developers for Guildwars Two.

[Yichi]

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

What I see as the prime message lately is this: You want to know what we're doing. You feel we are not telling you enough. You want details, and explanations, and even conversation. The Dev Updates were designed to help address the desire for details, but obviously some are asking for more.

No you missed the point completely. We know what youre doing. You all tell us what youre doing. The problem we have is that after you tell us what youre doing, we recieve no update or any information when asked about it. And god forbid that the question be relevant to the PVP community, because we never get an answer to questions we ask. When information is given, it is not up to the players to inform each other of whats going on and how the update or planned features are going, it is ANETS and most importantly YOUR job as CR reps to keep the community informed. The comments of "Were looking into it" and the "we are professionals" when asked abotu said updates or reasoning as to why updates are not ontime or infor about updates are not goign to cut it anymore. You have lost customers. This is a fact. Many erroneous mishappenings caused this. Most of which could have been fixed by better, more well timed information about the state of your game than by just holding off until the last minute before release and saying "SUPRISE!!!"

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

However, conversation takes time, and details and explanations are not without risk. There is a very good reason for not developing in a glass room, for not giving details of what the team is doing. I know some disagree, and they will say "Just tell us the top line info, just give us a working list." The answer--not my answer, but the official answer--is "No." Every time we say "We're going to look at [something,]" somebody takes "a look" as an absolute promise of change. We say we're making an update, and someone starts posting about "HUGE update promised." If we say "[something] is coming" people get impatient for it. If we give a tentative deadline, that gets written in stone in somebody's mind, and he starts a storm of disagreeable protests when it doesn't happen. If there's a delay, or a change in priorities, or a decision to not offer that something at all, there's an enormous outcry.

I think youre misleading ideas here to sugarcoat the sitaution. The simple facts are that when you tell the community that youre looking into something, than after you have looked into it, an answer should be given. If that answer is "no, we cannot do this at this time" than thats the answer that you give. The problem with setting a tenative timeline is that you rarely do. When you say somethign is comming out in the next few weeks, yes there is goign to be speculation. Look at all the Bullshit threads about GW:en and GW2 currently posted on every forum. Even with such little info as they have, people are quick to jump on the first thing that will come to their mind about something new. This is life. If you tell a kid youre going to Disneyworld, the first that that he thinks of is tryign to picture what its goign to be like and all the things he wants to do. Gaming is much the same way, so is a lot of things in life. The problem within this is that you have no accurate total information on whats going on so you really cant make an accurate statement. Which leads to the bigger problem, which is one in which you do set a timeline. If you tell the community that said update will be in place later this week, and next week rolls around, then yes people are going to wonder and question this. Why do you think we do this. Because time and time again this has happened and was never corrected. I have already given several examples of this happening and the same thing continues. The only time there is an enormous outcry for blood and someones head is when something that is told to be given to the community, and that is not fufilled and answered only with "Its comming soon" then yes, how do you expect there not to be an outcry from people who have bought and paid for your game? How logn did it take before the update notes on the game were given reasons as to why somethign was altered or changed? because when someone asked you about it, you had no answer. We are only again asking for the same thing with progress of updates. Say you tell the community that youre looking into making all weapons dropped after a certian date inscribable and that it will be here in the july 8th update (just used a date out of nowhere). Well if it is july 8th and the update is going to be posponed for 2 weeks, fine. Tell us. Say "Hey the up[date has a few minor bugs in it still and will not be ready on time, but should be finished and ready to go in the next week or two. we will keep you posted." DONE!!! end of problem. Had this been going on since the updates started, this whole topic and whole issue of CR would be a moot point outside of one area.

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

If there was a "List of What We're Working On" it would be scrutinized, second-guessed, and argued about until the cows come home. If there was such a list, people would be arguing about how to change the order on the list, or criticizing the priorities, or yelling that such-and-such wasn't on the list. How dare the developers set the priorities, huh? It's a fact with any game: Yes, you may want [this thing], but unfortunately, the developers are working on [that other thing]. And all the insults, the QQ posting, the calling for my head on a pike isn't going to change this truth: The developers are in charge of developing this game, and ultimately the developers will make the decisions about everything that goes into the game. Your input is welcome, listened to, respected, and used, when possible. But if you want to play an actual role in making decisions or setting priorities, you are going to have to get a job at ArenaNet.

The list would get scrutinized, as well it should. Some things that are being worked on or ideas that the devs are implimenting do not need to be in game nor should they be a priority. When the developers are working on an update or an idea to be implimented into the game when there are still known areas of your game that need revamping or looking into than yes the priorities are wrong and that list should be scrutinized.

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

The irony here is that someone *ahem* is blamed for what are, in your opinion, "bad decisions." But that someone isn't in a decision-making position. And if you think the wrong decisions are being made because someone passed along the wrong message, or didn't pass along your message, you're not paying attention to what I've been telling you, with complete honestly, about the process: I can argue, I can cite forum threads, I can speak against a decision, or push for a different one. But in the end, the decision is outside my control. I can't reject your ideas outright. I can't adopt them wholesale. That is someone else's job, and they do that job very, very well. I cannot change HA. I could not alter Jade Isle. I can't add a hairdresser or change the rules for the ATS. I cannot repair the clipping on the warrior's armour. I can, however, relay your concerns about those things, as I'm supposed to. As I do.

This is the one area that i dove into in an earlier citation is that there are areas of the game in which your staff and team have absolutely no idea as to whats going on. The updates are living proof of this. The jade isle was known to be broken for GvG and hexes LONG before this past update where it was fixed. It was discussed, by Isiah Cartwright nonetheless, on weapon of choice, on mIRC, on ventrillo, even on forums about the inability to effectively counter most hex builds on this map. The celestial tournament, a tournament that was based of real life prizes and cash, had several matches that were based around a known and abused game design, and yet nothing was done. This should have been a top priority for your team and the development staff to come up with a solution too as there was money involved, not just some goofy in game items, but real life money before this tournament ever took place as the problems were known to exist then. After the countless times that this was pointed out, over and over again, nothing happened except the usual "Were looking into it" routine that the PVP community always got. The exploitation of the archers, bodygaurd, and knights by balling up at certian chokepoints was another, and can still be taken advantage of and used to this very day. This is not having your priorities set right and focused on what needs to be done in this game. You say that our imput is respected, listened to, used, and implimented when can be, but this clearly is not the case when it comes to the PVP community. The AT's were supposed to help with the smurfing issue on the guildladder and the champ point farming problem that has plagued the guild ladder since you lowered the cap to 1200, yet you then turn around and basically encourage this with the new rules you recently implimented for the AT's. Having your guild registered into a tournament situation should not allow you to have a guest from another team play for you. A football team cannot ask the guy form their rival team to come QB for them so they can beat their rivals, so why should it be allowed? No tournament setting shoudl have ever allowed this, yet with the decline in popularity of the AT's you decide to allow this not even realizing the real reasons as to WHY the AT's are not as productive as you intended them to be. The long wait times, the guilds basically AFK farming the AT's for qualifier points, the lack of reasonable playing times for guilds, all are apart of this, yet inorder to try and fix this situation you go ahead and allow smurfing and champ point farming? JR, Black, Ensign, and several others including myself have all stated that the developers and the CR knowns verry little to almost next to nothing about what the current problems are in the PVP community, and its not just with this example, or hexes, or map mechanics, or killcount, its in general. Your CR staff is so thrilled to go to ID1 Kamadan or Lions Arch and talk with the PVE community and participate in discussions there, yet i can count the number of times on one, yes ONE, hand that someone has came into Heroes Ascent or any other location in the PVP community to participate in said discussions. So since this is the case and is factual, and since youre telling people that if they want somethign to actually be done abotu things to get a job there, are you hiring for a PVP CR rep? Because if so I could think of numerous people who you should ask for a resume from......

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

The relationship isn't necessarily about "conversation." It's must more important that we are listening. Ever heard the expression, "You never learn anything with your mouth open?" You learn by reading, listening, and watching the discussions within the community.

As a CR rep I cant honestly believe that you wrote this. This goes against what 80% of a CR rep does. Yes you listen and gather ideas from discussions in the community, you ALSO PARTICIPATE in said discussions, ideas, and conversations. And yet this doesnt happen, thus back to the lack of cummunication. While it does happen on the rare occasion that a major issue is pressing on an area or location, 95% ot 99% of these issues that are addressed are in either Riverside (here), Lions Arch or Kamadahn (ingame), or the updates notes and the Dev Tracker Forum (here). Issues that can be found in other areas of the game that are posted about in other areas are hardly ever commented on or questions brought up concerning other areas of the game are never recieved to with an answer. IT IS YOUR JOB to inform, discuss with, and interract with the community on events happening with and or dealing with your company.

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

The people who are involved with skill decisions, or art, or programming, will react to your requests, suggestions, complaints, and demands as they see fit. I assume that they are tracking your concerns, reading the community reports, following the links they are sent. I will say again that they are not getting their information, first and foremost, through me or my team. They are supposed to get their information directly from you. But the strange thing is that when they do, and when they do not react as you wish, you point to CR and say "You didn't do your job," or even more pathetically, "You don't know how to do your job." Oh, no, that's not it at all. You have been heard, but as The Stones say, "You can't always get what you want."

And if you don't like the change, please feel free to blame me. 'Cause after all, that's what I'm here for.

The people who are involved with map desicions, skill descisions, art, programming, etc. shoudl not only be getting hteir information from us alone. They should be given the proper information from whatever source they can. As a CR rep for your company, YOU are one of the most reliable sources of that information as you have a direct interaction with the community and should have a firsthand expierence as to whats going on, which sadly isnt the case here. Any and All information should be shared with your development team, no matter who, what, or where its from. That is the only way that they will truly be able to find out the ways to be able to better their product to their consumers, yet it would appear that the information is not alwasy given or they choose to ignore said information, or that the information isnt as important as it should be. It is our job as the community, Your job as the CR rep, and the forums job to help deliver this information to the developers from all aspects of their game and product. So in a way yes, that is what youre here for. To be thanked when the information we as a community provides reaches the devs and we recieve a response towards our concerns, or to be yelled at when the information is readily available and is knowledge in some instances, yet never gets acted upon or a response met with... Welcome to Community Relations.

-Jason aka Yichi

[Ec]-[oMaN]

Originally Posted by SerenitySilverstar

Shame on all of you using the anonymity of the internet to personally attack people you'll never meet in real life. You wouldn't let people attack YOU for doing your job - do unto others, and all that!

If I hire you to cut my lawn, and instead you fertilized it, are you doing your job?
If you did come to cut my lawn and only cut half, should I be happy?
We've already covered throughout this thread and from time pased, that either there is a lack of quality CR, or that devs are simply doing what they see fit. Truth be told, we'll never really know, wouldn't be good business practice for anyone to come out of the closet.

[ThisIsNi]

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

However, conversation takes time, and details and explanations are not without risk. There is a very good reason for not developing in a glass room, for not giving details of what the team is doing. I know some disagree, and they will say "Just tell us the top line info, just give us a working list." The answer--not my answer, but the official answer--is "No." Every time we say "We're going to look at [something,]" somebody takes "a look" as an absolute promise of change. We say we're making an update, and someone starts posting about "HUGE update promised." If we say "[something] is coming" people get impatient for it. If we give a tentative deadline, that gets written in stone in somebody's mind, and he starts a storm of disagreeable protests when it doesn't happen. If there's a delay, or a change in priorities, or a decision to not offer that something at all, there's an enormous outcry.

Yes, blame the community for YOUR lack of communication. This is a rediculous accusation agianst the community, and entirely untrue. Basically, you say,"They might be disappointed and complain, therefore we keep them in the dark" isnt fair for the people who DONT or WONT complain either way. Just because some, here meaning a very small outspoken percentage of the community, people are going to whine, doesnt mean you keep people in the dark.

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

But if you want to play an actual role in making decisions or setting priorities, you are going to have to get a job at ArenaNet.

So...tell me...what is your job agian? I think I'm confused. It's to listen to us...and here you say "You have no role, we dont care." I dont think that's quite right, and you might want to check your job description


My 2g

Ni.